Welcome to The Collegian’s blog about the 2008 vice presidential debate. This is the third live blog for The Collegian during the election.
Dan Petty, our online editor, was blogging live for The New York Times. Click here to read his posts.
Scroll to the end of this blog to see comments students have added about the vice presidential debate. Please add your own comments if you would like.
Here are the people who contributed to our blog tonight:
Rasheed Nazeri — Richmond College ‘10, Co-Coordinator of UR Students for Barack Obama
Daniel Colosimo — Richmond College ‘09, Liberal Commentator
Nate Goodman — Richmond College ‘10, Conservative Commentator
Debate Recap, with commentary:
10:30 p.m. — Both candidates are bickering over rhetoric. Palin said that John McCain was a maverick. Biden said McCain was not a maverick on issues that affected Americans at the “kitchen table.”
Palin responded to the negative press by saying that she was glad to have the opportunity to talk directly the American people without the “filter” of mainstream media.
Biden said that we can’t measure America by how well the people at the top were doing. We need to measure progress by how the middle class is doing.
10:20 p.m. — Palin said that, though she disagrees with McCain on some issues, she would take up McCain’s mantle of getting government out of peoples lives.
Palin has really broken through with her natural sharp wit and caustic responses.
Biden: “Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president in the history of the United States.”
10:10 p.m. — Palin has certainly settled down. I said from the outset that Palin’s job was to not make any major missteps. She is succeeding. Everybody knew that Biden would have a good feel for the issues and would draw from his experience. Palin has not just been reverting to generalities but is even engaging Biden on issues.
Palin said that McCain knows how to win a war.
Biden said that if he had to take up the job as president he would pursue Obama’s policies.
Biden: “I agree, in essence, with every major policy initiative [Obama] has put forward.”
10 p.m. — Biden: “All of our allies overseas are telling us to sit down and talk with them. Talk, talk, talk. Two weeks ago John McCain said that he wouldn’t sit down with the leader of Spain! A NATO ally!”
Palin: “For a ticket that talks so much about change and looking into the future, they do to much backward finger-pointing to make us believe that that’s where they’re going.”
Palin said the surge principles that worked in Iraq need to be implemented in Afghanistan.
Biden: “The commanding general of our forces in Afghanistan said today that the surge principles that we implemented in Iraq would not work in Afghanistan.”
9:50 p.m. — Palin said that McCain would commit to keeping troops in Iraq until victory. She said Obama voted against funding troops in Iraq.
Biden said McCain voted against the same vote that Obama cast against funding troops, on the basis that there would be a time line for withdrawal attached to the funding.
Palin has a much better command of foreign policy than what she displayed in her interview with Katie Couric. She is absolutely on message. She is now forcing Biden to go on the defensive and that is where she needs to keep him.
Palin said Obama has promised to sit down without preconditions with nations such as Iran, whose leader has called for the destruction of Israel.
Of the 224 people we polled this past week, we found that 59.2 percent said the war in Iraq and Afghanistan was the No. 1 foreign policy issue.
9:40 p.m. — Biden: “It is virtually impossible tostop climate change without knowing what started it.”
The moderator cut Palin off mid-answer but gave Biden a minute to respond.
Students in Whitehurst clapped when Biden said that homosexual couples would have the same rights as heterosexual couples.
Palin and Biden both said that they do not support constitutionally redefining marriage.
9:30 p.m. — Biden has a firm command of the issues. Palin is holding her own. Palin is doing what she needs to do. One of the things that gets Palin into trouble is that she begins to answer questions that she doesn’t have solid responses for. She is demonstrating some sharp wit.
Students in Whitehurst have been laughing when Palin uses “folksy” language. This is something that can get Palin into trouble but can also be an asset for her with blue-collar voters.
Palin’s position on climate change seems to be that, while she does not want to completely blame man for climate change, she said we need to acknowledge climate change is real and start working with other countries to find solutions.
A poll The Collegian conducted this past week revealed that 63.8 percent of students think Obama is the best candidate to handle energy policy.
9:25 p.m. — Apologies for the technical glitch. Palin started with a great deal of poise but seems to be getting flustered. Biden is confident and has command of the issues. Palin said that Obama and Biden would raise taxes.
Biden: “Under Barack Obama’s plan, 95 percent of tax payers will get a tax cut.”
Palin: “I take issue with your plan for redistribution of wealth.”
Palin is quite obviously trying to stay detail oriented.
Palin said McCain would offer a $5,000 tax credit to American families to pay for health care.
Biden said that McCain would pay for his tax credit by taxing small businesses. “That is money that would go straight into the insurance companies,” he said.
Biden called McCain’s plan the “Ultimate Bridge to Nowhere.”
Commentary before the debate:
Alaska Governor Sarah Palin is in the political fight of her life. It has been a bad week for Palin. She has had disastrous interviews with Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric and there is, of course, Tina Fey’s brutally accurate impersonation on Saturday Night Live.
Her primary objective tonight is to avoid being her developing stereotype. She needs to be strictly issue oriented and fluent in McCain’s economic proposals. The problem with the interviews was not that she made verbal stumbles, it was that she reverted to generalities and talking points. Speaking in platitudes may excite your base, but will turn off independents looking to be convinced.
Sen. Joe Biden will be the same Biden we saw in multiple primary debates. He will be calm, aggressive and will have a masterful command of the issues. His job will be to show respect for Palin and to not talk down to her. He cannot make the mistake that George H.W. Bush did in 1988 when he offered to “help” Vice Presidential Candidate Geraldine Ferraro understand foreign policy.
Palin cannot afford any more missteps. If she appears incompetent in front of millions of viewers, her national political career might be over.
With that said, she was elected Governor of Alaska for a reason. She showed a lot of composure and command at the convention. I predict that she will do much better than everyone expects. If she can walk away without making any serious missteps, against the most experienced person in the U.S. Senate, she will have scored a victory. — David Larter
I have been watching pundits on MSNBC for the three hours leading up to this debate. There is little talk about what viewers should expect from Sen. Joe Biden, aside from how he needs to make sure not to talk down to his opponent. Most of the discussion is about Gov. Sarah Palin. The question is whether she will present herself as the candidate we saw during the Republican Convention, or the one we’ve been seeing in TV interviews during the past two weeks.
What struck me is that the voters seem to be divided about Palin’s interviews. The media presents her as a candidate who cannot answer basic interview questions, but conservative voters think that members of the media are being unfair and disrespectful to her. Most students on campus have an unfavorable opinion of Palin, but our campus is not representative of the rest of the country. — Kimberly Leonard
—————————————————————————–
Hi everyone. I’m Kimberly Leonard, the online managing editor of The Collegian. Along with David Larter, the online community reporter, I am covering the Vice Presidential Debates screening in the Whitehurst Living Room here on campus. About 120 students are attending.
The Collegian polled 345 students last week and found that the majority of students polled had “no opinion” of Sen. Joe Biden, and the majority of those polled had a “very unfavorable opinion” of Gov. Sarah Palin.
About 50 percent of 224 students polled this week said they would vote for Barack Obama, and about 30 percent said they would vote for John McCain.
To contact staff writer Kimberly Leonard and David Larter at kimberly.leonard@richmond.edu and david.larter@richmond.edu
Nov. 20, 2008
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Governor Palin looks confident, Biden is his usually cocky self, somewhat condenscending toward Palin. Immediately slams Bush. Talks of Obama’s plan confidently. I feel nervous for Palin as Biden doesn’t hesitate for one second. “Fundamentally change” is a buzzword, middle-class.
Palin talks very simple, “soccer moms.” Criticizes federal government, praises McCain, not Bush. “Country First” theme.
“Violence against women?”- Biden takes aggresive tone towards women. Tough on McCain, slams McCain for flip-flop on economy. Claims McCain is “out of touch.”
Lackluster response by Palin. Try’s to slam Obama on partisanship, talks of change.
Palin has appeared nervous so far, but is doing a good job of giving the average American perspective on a number of issues, as well as nailing what is responsible for the lending crisis.
Biden made his first tough attack on her regarding McCain’s record on deregulation
Palin makes a great point about Obama’s weak tax plan, and defended McCain’s health plan very strongly. The real test will be the foreign policy questions, but she is really starting to become comfortable and come into her own at this point.
Reporting from Whitehurst Living Room (University of Richmond) where over 60 students and some faculty and staff have gathered to watch the first and only VP debate between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin.
Joe Biden’s calling the McCain health care and tax plan “the ultimate bridge to nowhere” drew applause and claps from the crowd.
The crowd responded with (sarcastic) laughter several times when Palin discussed the current economics crises–saying there is corruption and greed on Wall Street and that we have been taken advantage of by those corporations who paid us lots of money that we did not deserve–and also when she talked about taxes and claimed the Obama “voted 94 times for tax increases.” Joe Biden refuted her claims and said John McCain voted the exactly same way on the legislation she was refering to. Palin came back and talked about her record on lowering taxes as Mayor of Wasilla and Governor of Alaska.
Laughter (sarcastic) and “aaawwws” after Palin says: “How long have I been at this, five weeks?”
Palin claims Obama helped oil companies on taxes and she opposed it in her state. Biden says Palin opposed “windfall-profit taxes” and that John McCain proposes tax plans that would help the oil companies with 4 billion dollars.
The two exchange barbs over predatory lending, nothing spectacular. Biden call’s McCain “good man” but slams him on his de-regulation stance, blaming this for the current economic crisis. Biden talks of middle-class again.
Biden laughs at Palin, funny but dangerous. Palin holding own- but nothing special. Biden comes back strong, slams hard on voting record. Biden slams Palin for not responding to De-Regulation. Palin scrambles, Biden laughs, I don’t like the mocking tone Biden is taking, not smart. Still, terrible response by Palin. Everyone in the room is laughing at Palin.
“Fairness.” “Economic engine of America.” Slams McCain for wealthy tax-cuts, claims McCain is serving the elite and not the middle-class.
Palin responds by saying paying taxes isn’t patriotic, says small businesses will suffer. Claims bottom-up economics is backwards? Continues to stumble of health care. She seems reckless.
“Scranton.” Typical Biden. References the bible. “Bridge to nowhere.” Great comment. Students applaid.
Biden is clearly winning, Palin is struggling, but not knocked-out, yet.
Palin wants to stay on the topic of energy and seems to be reading from notes reffering to some 2005 piece of legislation, claiming energy independence should be the priotiy.
Biden talked about Barack Obama warning the Treasury Secretary of the looming credit and housing (sub-prime mortgages, etc) in a letter over two years ago. John McCain had said he was surprised by the credit problems, he says, paraphrasing him. This was his response to Sarah Palin reffering to McCain’s warning from earlier this year.
The environment–and global warming, specifically–drew a big contrast between the VP candidates.
Palin says she does not “want to debate the cause of the problem” but rather talk about solutions. She says she does not believe global warming is man-made but that it is part of a “cyclical” change in climate–though she says “some problems” are caused by men.
Biden says “it is man made.” He further argues that if you don’t know and are ready to accept “the causes” then it is difficult to rely on you to solve it. He also talks about John McCain’s record in voting against “renewable energy.”
Palin wipes Biden’s trademark smirk off his face when slamming him on he and Obama’s votes on the successful surge, and his comments that Obama is not ready to be commander-in-chief
Biden dances around the issue of Iran when discussing the problem of terrorism in the Middle East; Palin addresses it head on when reminding the audience of the danger associated with Iran acquiring nuclear weapons, and the threat it would pose to Israel.
Palin is doing a PHENOMENAL job discussing foreign policy, and just destroyed Obama on his commitment to direct Presidential diplomacy without preconditions. Biden’s response was weak to say the least, and he continues to deny the reality of Obama’s statement
Biden takes advantage over Palin with question of Iraq withdrawal. Palin responds with a very rehersed statement, “White-flag of surrender.” Biden continues to hit McCain resume. McCain is “dead-wrong.”
Nuclear Iran, un-stable Pakistan. which is worse? Biden: Both very dangerous. Central war on terror is not in Iraq. Hills of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Bib Laden!
Palin: Central war on terror is in Iraq. References Castro? Calls Obama nieve and dangerous. One of her stronger points.
Great point by Palin about focusing too much on the past by Biden and Obama, and how every administration makes mistakes. Change does not come when you continue to look into the past.
Low point of deabte: Neither candidates say they support defining gay-marraige as marraige, but Biden is more receptive, referencing the constitution, “pursuit of happiness.”
Biden: no smirk anymore, embarrassingly rude sigh as Palin discusses the viability of a surge strategy in Afghanistan. His facial expressions have been extremely important tonight, as they have shown how Palin has continued to score hit after hit against him, especially in the foreign policy area, where she was expected to be at her weakest.
Palin is on the right track about what needs to be done in Darfur; divestment. Chinese long-term oil contracts with Sudan have at least contributed to prolonging the conflict.
Dan, can you clarify what you said about my “lying” earlier? Maybe destroyed was too strong of a term, but she has been quite formidable in this line of questioning.
Palin is not suave enough to handle a campaign. She uses cliches like “maverick” and “voted for it before he voted against it” that hurt her credibility cause she sounds like a broken record.
If Palin is a broken record, it’s the Beatles’ Abbey Road
5 secretaries of state have said we need to sit down and talk with our “enemies.” President Bush has even done this, her argument was neither phenomenal, nor effective.
haha.
There is a difference between high-level diplomatic talks and direct presidential diplomacy
Biden say’s he will not be afraid to speak his mind to Obama when he is VP. Something the current administration has lacked. Biden wil avoid a presidential cabinet ‘group-think.’
What does a VP do?
Palin: Preside over Senate. Exert other powers if he/she chooses to–according to constitution. John McCain “has already tapped” her to work on education and children’s issues.
Biden: Would work w. Barack–who told him he wanted someone who would be courageous enough to disagree w. him. That is what allowed him to accept this.
Cheney “has been the most dangerous VP ever.” -Biden
Palin refernces her executive experience.
She continues to reference her family, and skirts the question.
Biden not willing to relinquish “change” message.
Palin is right to emphasize her connection to middle America, and made excellent use of the last question to emphasize her appeal as a woman of the people.
Joe Biden: I don’t question other Senators’ and other party members’ motives, but rather their “judgment.” Senator Barack Obama and himself, Biden says, would bring that change.
Sarah Palin talks about “diversity” in her family–something she had made refernces to many times. She promises to “walk that walk” by appointing those of Republican, Democratic, and Independent backgrounds.
Final analysis: Biden is strong, doesn’t make any major gaffes. Good debate for him.
Palin: Doesn’t exceed expectations, nothing special, but didn’t falter.
No game changer tonight, Palin was tough enough to not be called to resign her job, but proved again she is not ready.
At times, Biden seemed somewhat condescending, but didn’t cross the line.
Obama/Biden-2 McCain/Palin-0
Note* Whenever Palin stumbles, she references her family; somewhat odd, capricious, and a ineffective debate tool.
Ending Statements:
Palin had strong ending. Fight for freedom-correlates to country first.
Biden: Went back to bread and butter- CHANGE. The American Dream.
Overall I think a strong debate from both candidates. There were some sharp barbs from both sides, but overall the tone seemed to be pleasant and informative.
Palin far exceeded expectations that I had read and discussed with others prior to the debate, especially in the foreign policy area. I think she has made up for her Katie Couric debacle, and was able to hold her own against the more experienced Biden.
Nate “the great” Goodman did an excellent job of representing all the Goodman’s of America.
I hope all of you continue to be “engaged” in the political process and help prevent any future wars or financial crises.
Nate’s Uncle Paul